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I used to sleep onDragged Across Concretedirector S. Craig Zahlers couch.
And sometimes his floor.
I knew you years ago when you were a film student.
And now here you are with three films as a director to your name.
But you released your first feature,Bone Tomahawk, in 2015, when you were in your 40s.
Tell me about what happened in the intervening years leading up to finally becoming a director.
I recall you were studying to be a cinematographer in college.Yeah.
I shot some independent movies as a cinematographer that never got finished.
There are some exceptions, and I would point to sci-fi and horror in particular.
I didnt learn the new gear.
I wasnt shooting enough.
And I got more and more interested in writing.
I just had to do the hours.
At this point I have eight novels and more than 50 scripts to my name.
A novel is about four to five months.
I had written some screenplays in college, and they werent good.
I wasnt really much of a writer, and it wasnt really coming from a heartfelt place.
After college, I started writing these really bizarre plays.
Do you know who Richard Foreman is?
I was really inspired by his work, and a little by Eugene Ionesco.
Mine were these one-act plays that would play in a festival or in a night of one-act plays.
My favorite isPearls for Pigs, which had David Patrick Kelly in it.
So, I was very influenced by stuff like that, and I directed some of my plays.
I really believed in the magic, and I took it all very seriously.
Screenplays were the next step for me after writing and directing these one-act plays.
I wanted to do something longer form.
In another country,Despair.
Lots of not-so-memorable titles for that one.
I poured a lot of pretty sadistic stuff and atmosphere into it.
And to some extent, I was writing what I knew.
I think [the finished film] is an overall decent movie, but not one I love.
What gave you the confidence to keep going?
How do you know when the work is good?Ive always been confident.
And Ive always been critical, and I apply that to myself.
A lot of it parallels the development in my skills as a drummer.
So, after writing maybe six screenplays, I said, Im gonna write a giant fantasy novel.
This was in 2002.
Im a big fan of Clark Ashton Smith, who was an H.P.
Lovecraft contemporary, as well as a lot of the pulp guys.
I love George R.R.
Martin, and Guy Gavriel Kay, who wrote an incredible fantasy novel calledTigana.
It was 500 consecutive days of writing without an outline.
I was also working as a catering chef at the time.
That was a transition point for me as a writer.
Lovecraft, George R.R.
Martin, and Guy Gavriel Kay, without the skills to back it up.
But do that for 500 consecutive days.
That was where I really grew as a writer.
My prose got better.
I became comfortable with plotting on the fly as opposed to doing an outline.
That fantasy novel was the writing school that I could not escape and I just couldnt fail.
I remember whenThe Brigands of Rattleborgewas announced years ago.
At various points, there were all these people attached to it.
Park Chan-wook, Ridley Scott, etc.
Youve had other projects in development along the way.
My writing philosophies are diametrically opposed to the ones at Hollywood.
Many of my favorite scenes in my books and in my movies are sequences that dont advance the plot.
Its not really true when people say the people in Hollywood are idiots, or the executives are stupid.
They all come from a place of wanting to make money.
They want to confirm the characters are extremely sympathetic and super likable.
So, Im not a team player when it comes to the writing.
To me, those are good conversations.
Theyre going to talk about how to remove all the stuff thats potentially offensive.
And my pieces are loaded with those land mines.
But at the same time youve cast him as a character that will remind certain peopleof his past.
The cops were originally younger guys that were a little bit different.
And I didnt change it because I put him in the part.
Again, Im aware that some of this stuff will line up and will be things that people discuss.
I think that will happen more in 2019 than when people revisit the movie in 2022 or whenever.
But I have to stay focused on what I think is creatively the best decision.
Im not on Facebook or any of that stuff.
Yeah, exactly.Thats what I find compelling.
But no studio is going to look atDragged Across Concreteand say, That sandwich scene?
You should totally leave it in.
Or, The whole thing with Jennifer Carpenter?
Im really happy thats in there.
Thats not going to happen.
Then a paradigm shift happens.Pulp Fictioncomes out, and you get a million ripoffs.
He was my manager and he put everything on the line forBone Tomahawk.
That movie we just ran and shot.
We made it for $1.8 million.
Most of the people involved with it had no idea the budget was that low.
I wasnt interested in making a movie that I didnt have control over.
In the end I didnt have to.
Dallas mortgaged his home to get that movie made.
No one in the world believed we could do it for $2 million or less.
Actually, no one in Hollywood believed we could do the movie for less than $10 million.
ForDragged Across Concrete, I had one apprehension about what would happen when it got to the MPAA.
This is the first time that mattered.
But I also dont think something likeCell Block 99would receive an R rating.
