The pope of trash on Anna Wintour, staying youthful, and why Trump ruined camp.
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John Waters isnot prone to sentimentality.
Lately, he writes books, including his most recent,Mr.
Know-It-All: The Tarnished Wisdom of a Filth Elder.
(Theres a series of Twomblys in the dining room, a Kawamata with his plants.)
(Criterion plans to releasePolyestercomplete with an Odorama sniff card next.)
I identified with outsiders my whole life.
And I still do, he says lounging back into his chair.
But I want to be an insider now because thats the only thing nobody wants to be anymore.
I wasnt invited even though I was in every article.
I wasnt invited tothe Comme des Garcons oneeither.
But I had the best of all worlds: I didnt have to pay $40,000.
I didnt have to get in an outfit that I mightve felt uncomfortable in.
And Im in every article about it.
I didnt have to go through all that or pay anything and got the same amount of coverage.
Shes an incredibly successful editor, but Ive never heard her say anything that funny.
Which he does now.
But thats not camp.
You have to like whats camp.
It has to be so bad, its good.
Hes so bad, hes bad.
Im a bleeding-heart liberal.
I make fun of my own rules, but in some ways, I dont violate the rules.
Although he used to be what he makes fun of.
He was a liberal, wasnt he?
A little bit of one.
Does he make you laugh?Never.
But neither do most of the Democrat character candidates running now either.
And you could argue its not a funny time, which is true.
when I say that.
And I say, Who are you gonna vote for?
There are 40 characters that are going to divide it all up.
You know, the gay one I like.
She is the best one, I would argue.I think she will lose.
Any of the ones that have already been out there will lose, big time.
And any of the ones that give a shot to be super left wing will really lose, too.
And all the other ones just havent been around.
Im very much against Kamala [Harris] because she is a prisoners enemy.
She made it so that you couldnt get parole for ten years instead of five in California.
She did a lot of things that are against prisoners rights, so Im definitely against her.
Whats the one, Mayor Pete?
Is he the gay one?
Buttigieg, yeah.To me it better be somebody young and somebody new.
Its a civil war, and I believe that it could be decided by one vote.
Its split right down the middle.
Its just exhausting to me.
But I get why they like [Trump], because he infuriates us.
And its everything he said he was gonna do.
So hes not lying to them.
We were just too stupid and sat home and didnt vote.
Because the Democrats so thats what you get.
If we won and he won the popular vote, we wouldnt have said that.
Theyre always gonna say that.
Well, then change it!
But until they do, thats the way it works.
Look, I voted for Hillary.
Amy Carter has a better chance.
Hows your sex life?My sex lifes pretty good for 73 years old.
Do you feel like your sexual appetites have changed over the years?Its the exact opposite of today.
When I was young, free love came out in the 60s.
Today you need a lawyer to ask somebody for a date.
So, I have lived in the two most extreme ends of sexual manners.
But Ive adapted to the times, always.
Im certainly not going to a sex club now.
I would be recognized.
Id have to be doing selfies.
Part of a sex club was that it was anonymous, and that would be almost impossible for me.
I did all that.
I dont need to do it again.
You had to apply for membership to go to a club calledthe Toilet.
I mean, who got turned away?
Id have on a sport coat and say Im a plainclothes goth, thats my look.
That was the only club that I remember didnt let me in a couple times.
So I learned the manners of it, which I found so amazing.
Those clubs led to a lot of bad things, but Im glad I saw that era.
Itll never happen again.
I dont believe that will come back.
Why not?Because AIDS ruined everything forever.
Although maybe people arent scared about it anymore, which is even scarier.
Half my friends died of AIDS; you cant ever get over that in your life.
But every generation has something horrible that happens like that.
In the 30s, it was syphilis.
The artistic community has always had trouble with suicide and drugs and alcohol.
All those things always struck in the artistic community, and they always will.
That just happened to be my generations worst one.
What do you feel are the defining principles of sexual culture for younger generations?I think its progress.
Gay bars are closing.
They want to hang out with cool people, straight or gay.
I dont want to hang out with people exactly like me all the time.
When I was young and went to gay bars, they were illegal.
I went back to the beatnik bars.
The kind of gay people I liked were in there.
Ive never had sex from something on the internet.
That was after my time.
theyd call the police.
They wouldnt even know what cruising was if they were a certain age.
Why are you talking to me while Im on the phone?
Thats what somebody might say.
And theyre dancing with each other, looking at their phone while theyre dancing.
So its a different world out there.
Doesnt that feel like a loss of something?No, its a different time.
I never think what I did was better.
Thats when you get old.
Theyre having just as much fun as I did.
Things change, and theyre not going back.
Its a whole new world; its a lot easier.
Its just right there, whatever you want.
That was shopping, too.
You just did it a different way.
Did we have more fun?
Its just cause I was young and it was more of an outlaw thing.
Now, its really great that it isnt.
In Baltimore, we were the king of it.
Downtown every theater had that.
I went to underground movies in New York.
Id run away on the bus and go to theFilm-Makers Cooperativeand see them.
And foreign movies, like Ingmar Bergmans.
I didnt quite realize that at the time, but that is what they still are.
They dont work in real exploitation because the audience knew I was making fun of them.
People didnt go seeRuss Meyer moviesbecause they thought they were funny; they went to jerk off.
And nobody was jerking off in my movies, and if they were, they were in real trouble.
You didnt make horror films.
My standard line is, Ask my mother; she thought they were all horrible.
And they had moments Multiple Maniacswas sort of a joke on a horror movie.
People thoughtDivine they always think wrong was trans.
Divine never dressed as a woman except when he was working.
He had no desire to be a woman.
It was too hot to wear all that shit.
He couldnt wait to get that wig off.
The tits were so hot.
He didnt want to pass as a woman; he wanted to pass as a monster.
He was thought up to scare hippies.
And thats what he wanted to do.
He wanted to be Godzilla.
Well, he wanted to be Elizabeth Taylor and Godzilla put together.
Were there ever any lines that you felt like you couldnt cross?Sure.
I dont make a lot of Holocaust jokes.
I dont think Im ever mean.
Thats the main thing.
I make fun of things I like, while most people make fun of things they dont like.
That, in some way, is why I have been able to have this career for 50 years.
I never mentioned a name because I cashed the checks.
And Im always attracted to subjects I dont know the correct answer to either.
Did you ever make porn?Did I ever secretly make a porn movie?
And he has to shout out three pages of dialogue while hes giving a blow job.
So they were trying not to laugh.
How can you say that without laughing, when youre friends?
So, yes, I guess.
Once they shot a porn movie in my house and paid me for the location.
This was a really long time ago, around the time ofPink Flamingos.
And watching it being filmed was mortifying.
It was just embarrassing.
I felt bad for them because I knew em, too.
That was what was worse.
It was just so awkward to me.
And even when I shoot sex scenes, its embarrassing.
I feel bad, always, for everybody.
The only thing I havent tried is necrophilia and coprophagia.
And I dont plan to do either, although necrophilia is just fear of performance.
That ended my drag career.
You have to be so careful of what you say.
My friend told me this story, You know, every gay man once tried on their mothers shoes.
You did it once; you never did it again.
And you might not really wanna do that.
I dont think that would happen.Well, people have babies.
Thats why Trump will win.
These children will be in mental institutions.
Your parents are supposed to tell you what to do.
Then later, if you disagree, you rebel and do the opposite.
I think thats a healthy lifestyle.
And they can give you good ones and bad ones.
My parents had a 70-year happy marriage.
I did stuff that was against everything they ever believed in, but they always made me feel safe.
Thats why I didnt go off the deep end.
And most people dont get that.
Then when everybody elses kids started experimenting with drugs, they all called her for advice.
And they used to compare horror stories when they were young about going to openings and laugh.
And my mother started sobbing.
Which was amazing to me.
That was, like, the pope himself.
But so, all right, the canonization or what about it?
Thelast movie I madewas sexploitation and got an NC-17 rating.
I started and ended in the gutter.
In between I did sneak attacks that worked into middle America, especiallyHairspray.
Thats the only really perverse movie I made.
In public schools, you cant cast by weight, race, anything.
So Ive seenHairspraywith a skinny black girl playing Tracy.
It makes no sense, but whats better, the kids dont notice.
Just like when I sawKing Learon Broadway.
It reminded me of the Theatre of the Ridiculous.
Shakespeare wouldnt be rolling in his grave; hed be applauding.
So you liked it?Yes.
And I know some didnt.
And I can see the argument why some people might not.
But it took diversity toCharles Ludlamlength.
I lovethe deaf stuff.
You could act butch and deaf.
And then they had to learn how to act and sign at the same time.
So, yeah, I like people doing extremes.
I went to see theIsabelle Huppertplay.
I love that she always does extreme things.
Shes my favorite actress in the world.
Thats why I still love Lars von Trier.
He has one of the best senses of humor of all film directors.
My favorite is Gaspar Noe.Climaxwas my favorite movie.
I loved it, loved it, loved it.
Lets just say its a very altered version ofThe Red Shoesas a bad acid trip.
Thank God I didnt see it before I took acid.
I was very startled by the movie.
I thought it really delivered.
And its even more intriguing because the easy way doesnt work anymore.
Just sex and violence.
Hollywood does that and does it badly.
They make $75 million gross-out comedies that nobody thinks are that funny.
So, thats over.
You have to think of a new way.
And it does involve political correctness of all the things you could and cannot do in comedy today.
But I think that makes it even more of a challenge to pull it off and startle people today.
I do have a personal life.
Over half of my restaurant receipts are not tax-deductible.
And if yours arent, you dont have a personal life.
Friends for 50 years, thats the most important thing.
What do you attribute to the resilience of those relationships?Its work.
You have to keep in touch with people.
You have to call people.
You drift apart and you go, I havent talked to that person.
You have to be fairly social; you have to want to see people.
I have a Christmas party every year.
People think its some celebrity party.
Its my next-door neighbors that Ive had in other places Ive lived.
Its my family, relatives, and then some famous people.
But mostly, its the people Ive known for 50 years.
Somebody said, Whos that guy?
I see him every year.
Oh, hes the one with the singing asshole inPink Flamingos.
Hes 70 now, but he and his wife come.
In the book, you write about how you and Divine had rough patches at various moments.Yeah.
Because where else could Divine get a job?
That was the problem.
I only made a movie every couple years.
How is he supposed to live?
Even in those days, we didnt have much money.
I still send it to the Divine estate.
Mink and I had some problems in our life, too.
But thats what friendship for 50 years can do.
Certainly, Divine, at the end, we were very close.Hairsprayhappened and everything.
So, you got through things.
When business and friendship meet, that can be complicated, too.
Thats whatPeckerwas about, in a way.
I was looking for it.
But later, I realized that that was definitely illegal of him to do and everything.
How old was he?Twenty-two or something.
But I did say okay!
You work with what you got.
It didnt scar me or anything.
But it could have scarred somebody else.
What is yourlovemap?Well, its a complicated thing.
Im friends with four of [my exes], and theyre all very different types.
I like people that didnt grow up how I grew up.
Im not looking for a twin.
So, my lovemap would be someone that doesnt really fit in in any obvious punch in.
But at the same time, they have to have a good sense of humor.
And they have to be able to deal with my obsessional scheduling; Im very organized.
But I dont want them to be a fan.
Ive never had a boyfriend that quoted lines from my movies to me.
That would make me crazy.
Have you been in love?Oh certainly.
Yes, and I believe in that.
Its hard; its another job.
I say in the book, you just have to tell people you love them in their sleep.
That way you cant be disappointed, and they do hear you.
And it doesnt demand an answer, which is always the problem with saying it.
A drive for romantic companionship isnt really minusCry-Babymaybe a part of your films.Hmm, let me think.
But no, Ive never made a romantic comedy.
I hate romantic comedies.
And I pray no one ever goes, Aw.
When anyone ever says that, it means I would hate whatever they just said.
My God, I hate that.
If I do it, it would be exaggerated to be ridiculous.
Its a cheap effect.
Are there other genres that you dont like?Science fiction I dont understand.
I would never know if it was good or bad.
And I hate special-effects movies.
I like them better when theyre bad.
Now its a science project; its not a movie.
Making all the movies was freeing to me, but I didnt feel like I was suffering.
As a teen, I got hassled.
I just wanted to get out of there.
I knew what I wanted to do.
I was not naive, and I was trying to do a kind of humor that I always liked.
I always went to all the exploitation movies.
Nobody said they were good then.
Its not like today, where there are festivals showing them.
You had to go downtown to Baltimore in a mostly, 95 percent, African-American theater to see them.
And we went all the time.
I would cut school and go, take speed, and see three movies a day on Black Beauties.
Maybe I was and didnt realize it, and these movies helped me get un-tortured.
Thats how it works.
The more money you get, the more stuff youre gonna have to go through.
Hollywood treated me fairly.
Sometimes I was totally overpaid, and sometimes I didnt get anything when I made it myself.
But every person that lent me money personally to make a movie got their money back.
They said no, and probably correctly.
The test screenings went terribly.
Women hated it, so that was an odd one.
And he was right.
But that wasnt bad.
It made it better.
Hairspraywas billed as your crossover movie.Definitely it was.
But I didnt write it as that.
I certainly never thought I was gonna get a PG rating.
I was shocked when that happened.
I guess each time I had to hope it was gonna be commercial.
And I always thought up ad campaigns.
I always thought up ways to sell.
I always got movie stars to be in it.
I always had soundtrack albums.
I always had unit photography.
I always wanted it to be commercially successful.
I wasnt the kind of director that was like, I dont care if people see the movie.
EvenPink Flamingos?All of em.Pink Flamingoswas commercial.
How are you defining commercial, then?There was an audience for it.
And I exploited it to that audience and wanted them to come pay to see it.
For a midnight movie, it was very commercial.
I guess mainstream is the better way to put it.Well,Pink Flamingosplayed on television uncut.
Who could ever imagine that would be possible?
I still dont know how it was possible.
It was on the Sundance channel.
And then, when video came out, I knew that was over.
And then,Serial Momwas about true crime.
That was the most commercial movie.
I had the most money to make that movie than any of em.
Do you still want to make films?I dont care if I dont make another one.
I dont know when I would.
Im busier than Ive ever been in my whole life right now.
I had thisFruitcakemovie that I never made; there was gonna be animation.
So, who knows?
If I dont, I am absolutely fine.
I made 16 movies.
Its not like I havent spoken.
Somebody said, Why dont you do Kickstarter?
I own three homes.
What am I gonna go on Kickstarter, Help me, I dont have any money?
No, because today with independent film, they wanna give you a million bucks for a budget.
I dont wanna go backward.
Im not gonna be an anarchist filmmaker at 73.
You cant go back to asking people to work for nothing.
How would you describe what youre attracted to in an actor?A sense of humor.
Thats the whole thing.
She said, Well, how are you gonna do that?
And I said, Well light it and then throw a bucket of water on you.
She said, No!
And I didnt, and I look back … What was I thinking?
I actually didnt want to hurt her or anything.
Is that where the idea tolight Melanie Griffiths hair on fireinCecil B. Dementedcame from?Probably.
The worst special effect.
I shouldnt have paid the company that did it, but this was before digital, you know.
That is probably where it came from.
It all comes from somewhere.
I would steer clear of that.
You know, I knew probably that he was gay.
I certainly didnt know that he was a Republican, which he was until the day he died.
He used to torture me with that.
But there was no joke.
It was the middle I always was terrified about.
Why?Because they like to do things like go on mall walks and stuff.
What would I do on a mall walk?
I dont even know what that is today.
But Ive seen it.
Ive seen people doing it and its very frightening to me.
I was frightened when I went to Hudson Yards.
Its everything I came to New York to escape basically.
Its, like, a shopping mall.
The whole thing is just like suburbia.
In the middle of what used to be a great neighborhood for hookers.
That to me is not progress, but I understand to most people it is.
Im not saying I dont understand the other argument.
It just doesnt seem like New York to me.
Do you have a lot of young friends?Yes.
I can always go along with young people or old people.
Its a fair trade.
You gotta have youth spies.
Even after 30, you need a youth spy.
Young people always seem to come to me, too.
Thank God because otherwise my audience wouldve dried up a long time ago.
Half the people who come to my [shows], they werent even born when I madePink Flamingos.
Some werent even born when I made my last movie!
So, you gotta keep replenishing the audience.
Ive seen Academy Award winners, A-list critics, all of em doing poppers in my house.
And then it became likeMother!because the BostonGlobewrote [about] them and the entire town crashed it.
And I never had it again.
But I had it for maybe eight years.
It was just funny because a lot of people had never done them.
And one buddy drank one.
They dont even know how to take em right.
And it only lasts three minutes.
And mostly just people were laughing.
People werent having sex on it.
People would look at you like crazy when youre like Ahhhhjust for three minutes.
People run from you because you look like youre crazy laughing for no apparent reason andturning bright red.
Are you on social media?No.
Im not on Facebook.
Im not on Instagram.
Im not interested in what you had for lunch.
But Im not against them.
I work ten-hour days.
And youre not on Twitter.No.
Im not giving away for free all my jokes!
What would I put in my books?
I dont get why anybodys on there.
I wouldnt have anything left to write or talk about.
What do you feel your cultural legacy is?Oh, that sounds a little grand.
I always say this, but I made bad taste one percent more respectable.
I hope I have a legacy.
I hope the day I die Im not forgotten the next day.
Thats why you work so hard, cause you dont want that to happen.
No one in show business does.
Thats why theyre the most insecure people in the entire world.
What do you think ofAperol Spritzes?I dont know what that is.
Aperol Spritz.I have no idea what that is.
Tell me, what is it?
But on Friday night, Ill have a Ketel One Martini straight up with an olive.
Its the closest thing you might get to LSD without drugs.
