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And the topic ended up being of course: Hudson Yards.
Was this massively ambitious bingosphere really the future of this or any other city?
(If you prefer, you could watch thevideo here.)
This is the week that Hudson Yards opened up.
And I wondered what you guys thought of it.
And I think the question in New York becomes, where do you put that density?
How do you increase the density in New York, and how do you do that?
And I think that that is something we all should look at as an impressive step forward.
Now, its an experiment for sure, and did they get it right?
I think we dont know yet.
I think thats going to evolve, especially as the site continues to develop to the north.
But it is truly an investment in density and an investment in New York City.
And for that, I think it deserves sort of a round of applause.
Its a new public space.
Its a new connection in the city.
And Id only been there for a few days and I thought its such an old-fashioned place.
Buildings were falling apart, etc.
This is kind of the reverse.
Really, do we call this the city of tomorrow?
If this is the city of tomorrow, Im gonna leave New York.
I think its an unbelievably missed opportunity.
To me, New York is a place of diversity.
I have never seen such an unwelcoming place.
[Pauses] Im probably not gonna get a job in Hudson Yards.
Cooper:This is getting good!
So I didnt hear any of what these people said before.
And we dont have the benefit like the musicians have of a speaker this way for people like me.
But um, I think that this subject is super interesting.
I completely agree with Annabelle about the result.
So this is like, totally off the charts.
And I think its not for a number of reasons.
Because you know its really not the case.
And this is like, fifteen years ago.
Because if you hate ballet, you just dont go, right?
You dont like the television set, you know the programming, you turn it off.
Architecture you have to suffer no matter what.
And even if youre blind, you suffer it.
Its much more open-ended.
Do you think there should be an architectural review board in this city?
Who would be on it?Vinoly:I wouldnt be on it.
Selldorf:Sorry, I dont think they would have you.
Rafael, when you think about a building that you literally cant turn off.
I think is a marvelously well-proportioned building.
And I dont know.
I think I got a lot of compliments for that.
Cooper:I think its a wonderful project.
It operates at a scale that it has a different responsibility than a small-scale building.
And its interesting, as we see these super-talls come along 57th street.
And we see Hudson Yards hulk up vertically.
Buildings at that scale have a whole other civic responsibility.
And certainly 432 Park now is part of defining that identity.
And certainly Hudson Yards is, as well.
Selldorf:From New Jersey.
Its not part of the skyline.
You dont really see it unless you are approaching from the west.
Cooper:Or from the south … Im not trying to defend the buildings at all.
Because you are talking about an entire neighborhood.
It doesnt affect how things happen on the ground.
So I mean, lets just keep the church in the village.
Its not a place for people.
Well its a kind of new international style, I guess.Selldorf:Kind of.
No, I think that its a very interesting process.
Then that garden became a fact.
And I myself am very fond of it.
I think its incredibly nice what that garden does to the ensemble of the entire museum building.
All of those things one can understand.
But you go through a dialogue with landmarks and with all of the other authorities to get there.
The financial district and up to Midtown.
I think we had probably 500 community engagement meetings since then.
Anyone, I dont care.
You.Cooper:Im gonna speak to this since somehow I am now owning Hudson Yards.
I agree with that.
Can we do that with a fresh, forward thinking aesthetic?
And so we embraced terracotta as a building material.
So I think absolutely its something we talk about in every project.
And sometimes were more successful than others, lets say.
What about you guys?
So we just finishedtwin towersnext to the High Line actually on 11th street.
A hotel and a residential tower.
These are the buildings that sort of twist.Sundlin:Yeah, exactly.
And that seems like its going through several rounds of processes.
They obviously operate on a very big scale.
They operate on a city scale, so yeah.
Do you think they think theyve figured it out?Sundlin:Uhm, I think were getting there.
Its nearly a million square feet, where we have a public route through the middle of the building.
Has recognized that as a cheat of the system.
And has made an active choice to prevent that from happening.
And there are now maximum heights for mechanical space, drawings that have to be submitted.
What?Vinoly:The system is bound to be cheated.
Yeah.Vinoly:The system is ridiculous.
No matter how you slice it.
Thats the whole invention of this place.
It has created this experiment which is impossible to transfer.
I mean you know, this is irreproducible.
The mistake of Hudson Yards is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the street.
And thats this is irrespective of the architectural quality.
You know this notion that Michael mentioned the other day in theTimesabout the gated community.
Is there something you refuse to do?Cooper:Of course!
Selldorf:What do you mean they didnt have the opportunity?
They were asleep or something?
Vinoly:They didnt have the opportunity.
Selldorf:They did not?
Vinoly:Its a completely different planning process.
Nobody whod be convinced by what you guys do for example, would ever set foot in my office.
Because theyd be bored to tears.
And, well, I mean, I wouldnt be able to do twisting buildings.
I wouldnt know how.
Selldorf:Yeah, VIA.
And I think that is really what I love about New York …
I think it was really just about the no saying.
I think its all about relationships in the end, no?
I mean, Im sure you say no to
Sundlin:We always say yes.
Selldorf:An artist friend of mine once said, from now on Im only going to say yes.
I should try that sometime.
If that makes sense.
I want to ask you a question, because you began this.
Is there something that you admire about one of the other persons work?Vinoly:Their clients.
No seriously, these three guys are fabulous architects.
They have produced things, you know, its a tough business.
You have to be fit for this and you have to have a …
I mean, youre too young.
Each are chasing the first thing.
Cooper:I dont know if Ill answer that.
Absolutely, so, Im a part of big firm thats 83 years old.
It is very hard to do good architecture.
And you look around town.
And that becomes obvious, right?
Thats a wonderful part of being an architect.
You hope that you get there.
And I think that this group certainly demonstrates that.
And I think that hopefully thats why theyre up here.
And that were part of that as well.
Selldorf:I think thats completely beautifully said.
Another question from the audience: How are you integrating health and wellness into your designs?
Wellness, thats a buzzword right now.Vinoly:Thats the spa.
Actually, danger and surprise is a lot better.
Cooper:Okay, Im gonna give a different answer.
I think that theres a new attention on this.
So, theres absolutely an attempt.
And theres a greater voice for that.
And so, it comes to us as a demand, actually.
It is a large part of our internal conversation right now.
Do you think that the city could become too dense?Vinoly:Very much so.
How close are we to that?Vinoly:80 percent.
You actually cannot go down the stairs, because theres so many people.
And there are no Japanese porters pushing people in the right place.
Then I think theres a real lack of health and wellness.
Cooper:Exclamation point.
Vinoly:Its a failure of the public sector.
And, you know, has reached the limit.
Infrastructural collapse is really pretty close.
Its sort of like the carbon problem.
Its just gonna be fine.
But there is a general malaise that has to do with any kind of public service of that kind.
Because there were just so many people and you simply wouldnt be moving.
I felt very claustrophobic and its a very, very unpleasant situation for people.
And so, Im reluctant on advertising density.
Cooper:I agree completely.
And we have infrastructure challenges that have to be addressed.
And that, typically, or historically, wed say New York City referred to Manhattan.
And we have these issues of density in Manhattan that are challenged to grow.
It seems like someones thought of that, yeah.Cooper:Yes, but I think that it can handle.
Its okay to see that density.
