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In 2011, Emily Nussbaum left her position as TV critic forNew Yorkto take a job atThe New Yorker.
I now occupy her chair.
I phrase my status that way because one does not replace a writer as singular as Emily.
The title:I Like to Watch: Arguing My Way Through the TV Revolution.
How did you become a critic?I was deeply ambivalent about writing arts criticism generally.
Thats part of what this book is about as well.
An older film critic overheard us.
But we have completely shared this particular irritation.
In contrast toBuffy?Yeah.
One of the most striking things to me aboutBuffywas that its ambition is very much within thecontextof television.
I miss the intensity of color on television thatBuffybrought every week.
They never fell prey to that muted color equals serious art cliche.Its true.
That was definitely one of the things that marked the show as junk, as a guilty pleasure.
That and the fact thatBuffycombined a lot of different genres that people looked down on.
Like what?Sitcoms.
Also, the genres people think of as juvenile because they deal with the supernatural vampire stories in general.
These are genres that people talk about affectionately, but condescendingly.
And all of this was combined with the fact that it was a feminist show about a teenage girl.
TV is more expansive now than it was then.
The book is the book.
The film is the film.
Its something thats created over time.
It loops with its audience, and it changes, because the people who are making it change it.
A television series is at once a filmed and created thing.
And also something thats being made live before your eyes.
Its a rough draft that keeps becoming the final draft.
That has changed the relationship the show has with time, and with its audience.
And there really is alotof TV.
So much that it becomes an issue of time management and creates an existential feeling of being overwhelmed.
That might partly explain why my reviews of the Netflix Marvel shows got increasingly bitter.
By the time I got toIron Fistseason two, I was in this frothing rage.I strongly relate to this.
Its an interesting process.
I dont think that really happens.
I find that critics in general are pugnacious enough.
Find the new things, find the little gems, find the off-the-beaten-track stuff.
Thats how I found out aboutPlease Like Me, this Australian show that I love.
Its amazing, and for a time it was only showing on Pivot in the United States.
Now its available on Hulu, and Josh Thomas, who made it, is making a new show.
Its a political satire with zombies, set hundreds of years ago in Korea.
Its good to have people like that in your life.Yes!
I feel like Im being constantly tapped on the shoulder by shows that I havent written about or seen.
I have an organizational thing on my phone called Wunderlist where I list shows that people mention in passing.
I bet thats some list.It is, and it just gets longer and longer.
Increasingly, Netflixisthat list.
I often think whats that book,The Fermata, where hes able to freeze time?
That should be an episode of the newTwilight Zone.
Or aBlack Mirrorepisode!Do you remember a show calledBlood Drive?
Becausenobodywas talking about it.
I think youre right that Archie Bunker fromAll in the Familyis probably the first prominent example of that.
Walter White fanboys were out in force during that last season.
It was raining out and I couldnt catch a cab.
And I said, What did you think of it?
He said, I just watched the finale.
He was kind of a great hero, in that way.
This is an oddly common experience with a certain kind of TV narrative.
I wanted to ask you about something.
Your guess is 100 percent correct.
Starting in season two, they started showing the collateral damage done to people who werent in the mob.
Tony exploits him to the point where he has to turn over his store.
These people are horrible.Amazing.
It had to constantly pander to get the widest possible audience.
You enjoy the casual misogyny of these mobsters as a kind of titillating treat?
Well, how do you likethis?
It did feel like a major change in that way, yes.Do you remember whenBuffalo Billcame out?
That show with Dabney Coleman?
Bill was an unrepentant asshole, and he was the main character.
And that was a broadcast-internet show!
I guess that was a canary-in-a-coal-mine example of the kind of show weve been discussing.Yeah, it truly was.
The show was a flop, so the conclusion was Okay, TV cant do this.
Obviously, that was not true.
If anything, TV went on to show us way too many assholes.
To me it was one of those things that blotted out a lot of other interesting TV.
I often love them, especially in comedies.
And there are different definitions of anti-hero.
Or maybe they are, but its a failure of the show, not the fanhood.
Which probably says something about the way the last few years have felt for women.
Is that an accurate assessment?Yeah, that is definitely a fresh and raw piece.
Originally, I was planning to write three or four short essays on completely different topics.
Instead, I wrote this one unusually personal essay.
I dont know if I have any further thoughts on that.
None of these matters are settled.
When you talk about TV that way, its no longer about one person being right or being wrong.
Its about people bouncing impressions and emotions and analyses off each other.
Thats why its a good time to be writing about television.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
