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James Gray has been trying to getAd Astramade for nearly a decade.
I tried to write an exploration movie in space, just trying to do something personal, Gray recalls.
(Our David Edelsteincalled it eerily, transfixingly beautiful.I would agree.)
With space movies these days, we hear a lot about all the scientific research that goes into them.
Was that the case for you?Oh, yes, a huge amount.
I had dinners with astronauts at my house.
Im really in awe of those people.
They have incredible bravery.
I really enjoyed the research.
It doesnt look like the moon, or Mars.
So I said, Well what do we do?
JPL [the Jet Propulsion Lab] gave us their high-res images of the moon and of Mars.
So in the movie, the surfaces of the ground are moon and Mars.
So youre basically watching the first movie shot on location on Mars!
But I did get things wrong, usually because the science got updated.
For example, the idea is correct that you have to stop on the moon to go to Mars.
Because the gravitational pull of the moon is one-sixth of Earth.
to make it leave orbit on the moon, you need much less thrust.
Your rocket doesnt have to be as big.
You dont need as much fuel.
I got that right.
This film took a long time to finally come to theaters.
Why was that?A couple of things.
One, the picture edit itself was difficult.
I was asked yesterday, how different is my first cut from this?
The structure is pretty straightforward.
The thing that was difficult is a lot of the world creation with visual effects.
Youre having to create a lot of those shots from scratch.
And if it doesnt fit, you have to redo it.
But also, lets be honest, the studio got purchased by another studio.
Disney bought the studio, and they they couldnt release two movies of their own on the same day.
So when people say, Wheres your movie?
Im like, Have you read the newspaper?
This is your first film with a lot of effects.
You have Brad by himself up on wires, 40 feet up.
But it turned out to be much more arduous.
Im just constantly worried about everything!
But it is true in some sense.
Obviously, you always attempt to do your best, but you think its not an important scene.
And, then, there are other days you go, Geez, the scene is so critical.
You have 10,000 decisions to make, basically.
And you might make 9,998 correct.
But if you make two wrong decisions on two scenes you really need, the film could be destroyed.
Can you think of times when thats happened to you?I can cite exactly what mistakes Ive made.
Jeremy Renner gets killed and [Marion Cotillards character] doesnt immediately go to him.
If you watch the film, she goes like this [lurches forward].
You really want to go through with this?
Filmmakers always see the mistakes, it seems.Okay.
And then later, he calls her up to find out shes in trouble.
That almost wrecked the film.
Once I saw the film cut together, I knew I had to fix that.
But no movie is flawless.
Its narratively awkward, but you dont care.
Its a really powerful moment!Its incredible.
Were not talking about real flaws, were saying flaws.
And his first wife …ding… out of the movie!
And thats never resolved.
Now, thats a flaw.
But also because the film feels like episodes out of Jake LaMottas life.
And those ellipses are bold and brilliant.
And then you pan to Earth, which is the opposite of what Kubrick does.
I never thought about that.
Wow, thats so weird.
It works genius in that way; again, a flaw becomes a strength.
I mean, it ends differently.
But that was the impetus of the idea.
Im a different person than I was when I made my first film.
And so that takes care of the films feeling different.
You just make a run at focus on what it is you care about.
I was very interested in fathers and sons.
Im not estranged from my father, thank heavens.
But all relationships between father and son are very complicated relationships.
And its a shorthand.
Why are they friends?
When did they meet?
Does one look up to the other?
But in a movie, if I say fathers and sons, you know exactly what Im saying.
There is a baggage.
Ill give you an example.
InThe Godfather, you have no scene between Brando and Pacino until the end.
He barely sees him at the wedding, and then at the end, in the garden.
But you dont need more.
That gives it a weird kind of unity, doesnt it?
BecauseHeatin some ways owes a great deal in structure toThe French Connection.
But it still does have some kind of unity, and maybe its the myth.
Maybe its the iconography of those two actors.
It wasnt about Joaquin Phoenix becoming a cop and how terrific that was.
The father is the one who tells him to cut the cord.
Its why I staged it where hes looking up.
He has to look up to the father, in both literal and figurative terms.
And then youre quite right, out in space, theres a strange power dynamic that happens there.
But that was also very mythic, the atonement with the father.
And how lost he was.
I was hoping that it would come out in Brads performance.
His performance, which is excellent, seems like it was quite a challenge.
The character is so closed off.
Outwardly, hes so professional, calm.
Kind of like, What the hell?
And internally, Is he alive?
Externally, I have a mission.
Now, is it enough?
It is for me.
It is for Brad.
It is for people who connect with the film.
It isnt for people who dont.
You always take some measure of risk.
Is that where the art lies?
Theres no right way to approach it.
I picked it up at random …
I was reading her review ofRaging Bull, which is very negative.
For her, the clearly overt characterization, his whole kind of persona, was too much.
I dont agree, obviously.
I think its brilliant.
But for her, it was too much.
So its such a taste issue.
And Im sure therell be some people who seeAd Astraand say, Wheres the acting?
You take a stab at use triggers.
What kind of triggers?Well, Im not really comfortable talking about the triggers I used with Brad.
But it depends on how the actor works.
Its a good question.
Some actors work in a very [Lee] Strasberg sort of way, which is substitution.
So some actors work that way.
Other actors use total make-believe.
Other actors work from the outside in; the costume becomes the person.
How do you trigger a performance?
Thats also why Im about to say something controversial, maybe you should stop me.
Go for it.Its why good work sometimes is ugly.
Social media would have torn Francis apart now.
But to do good work, sometimes thats demanded.
Or what [John] Cassavetes did to Lynn Carlin onFacesand Gena Rowlands.
I dont know if that would survive today.
The set is a sacred place, because you are going to confront some demons.
I dont know if thatll survive the social media explosion.
Speaking of which, I like the little hints you give about the dystopian world inAd Astra.
And the baboon, too.
There are a few essential truths, it seems, about human nature.
Its not a steady line upwards.
Its like … the telephone!
And then … Hitler!
So, life is better.
But there is at any given time over a hundred wars in the world still.
What does that tell you?
There are core aspects to our nature which are not ideal.
And we carry that with us.
You cant have grass-fed beef, theres no grazing.
Can you grow vegetables and fruits in one-sixth gravity?
So then ask yourself, what would be on the moon?
It would probably be processed food, artificial meat.
It would be fast food, because theyre the pros of processed food and artificial meats.
Thats why Subway is there.
You may have international treaties, but how do you enforce them?
So there are basic core truths to the moons situation and core truths to who we are.
How do you bridge that gap?
I dont think we do.
We tried to communicate that inevitability.
This is also communicated in Roys journey, right?
Theres a body count wherever he goes.Hes an angel of death!
The whole crew dies under his watch.
But all throughout, everybody tells him, Youre Clifford McBrides son?
Its an honor to meet you.
And finally we get to Ruth Negga, on Mars, whos like, Youre Clifford McBrides son?
That fucking guy killed my parents.
Its like all that propriety has finally been stripped away.
Shes a very wonderful actress, Ruth Negga.
And I said, You are the oracle.
You are the person of wisdom talking to this man-child, educating him.
If I may be pretentious, yet again, that was our attempt to do a Campbellian thing.
In his book he has a chapter on meeting with the goddess.
But we also wanted to give her her own humanity.
She has this terribly unresolved thing herself.
But if Tommy Lee Jones had discovered alien life, it would all seem justified.
If you were searching for something your whole life and you finally found it, what does that mean?
Thats its own trouble, isnt it?
Its the same way with filmmaking.
You find pleasure in the doing.
Im like, Youve made incredible movies, maestro.
And he said, I never made anything like that.
He never found beauty in the idea that human beings are what matter.
The idea of striving is what matters.
